Ape – Always the voice of the province

I always kind of empathized with what might have been situations that I had reported.

Then instead I talk a lot more about myself, so they were things I had to say, I wanted to say, but there was never an opportunity.

Ape, for Aelle Magazine, with an old school and true school greeting that now sets us apart. But look, you've just come out with a single, in preparation for an album that will be out, or is it already out recently? “Rapstar” is already out, “Rapstar” which tells a little bit about unrequited desires from part of your career, which then is always relative.
But then the idea was to always do a piece that was telling, that was a conscious banger (if those definitions still make sense), and that was kind of the goal to tell what my journey was. But also how today someone who is a Rapstar can feel, since everything is interconnected today, become a character. One single after another, everyone starts out that maybe they are even strong at doing rap done right. But then, by necessity, the trade-off is that you have to do it. And so I tried to imagine myself as someone who is forced to do stuff, which in the end it's okay to do because to be in that world it makes sense to do it. Maybe then there's the side effect, that you feel a little bit exploited. Also I'm talking about the entourage around you. So I tried to think both ways.

On the talk of regrets, actually if I had to have them they would have come out much earlier. It's actually an after-the-fact consideration. And they are liking it, so let's say the key was right.

Record all produced by Il Papi, yes, except for one production that Robby Budget does, who is a guy who hangs out with us however he has four hands with Il Papi. So there was also a featuring on the machines. Because in the end with Il Papi we have been working since 2018, after “Gemini,” for “Leftovers.” But a whole record I with him we had never done. Because we get along very well because he manages to complement me a lot in the studio, in the sense that he does a little bit of art direction, which is the stuff that maybe I kind of miss because I could do it to someone else. But on myself I'm a little too fixated. And so the pairing worked, because he had said, ’Whatever, let's make a record at this point.’ So it's these ten pieces, then you'll hear them.
“Letters Never Written” is another fairly reminiscent title. What was it that you had never written after years of rap?

Things that are so much personal and so much lived, related to things that have happened to me in the last few years. I've always written content stuff where anybody can identify with it, and it's always been something that they've liked. I always kind of empathized with what might have been situations that I had reported, though. Then instead I talk a lot more about myself, so they were things that I had to say, I wanted to say, but there was never an opportunity. And so they are a little more intimate as pieces. I started working with Il Papi, so to have some confidence on the productions side. I was also able to bring out a little bit more unusual things from what I normally did, not so much as lyrics but also in some chorus or some content that was a little bit too intimate, that maybe years ago I wouldn't have felt like telling. The time has come to do that. Yeah, yeah, also because, I mean, this is the 11th one. So after a while, I mean, my recipe is always that: I try to update by looking at what are the sounds that are in fashion now, but always that part of the sounds that are in fashion that I can put back on top of. And so after a while you have to dare. So it's always a record, as many people say, ’a la Ape,’ but with different nuances.

Even “Rapstar” itself however has a bit of a peculiar production, stuff where when Il Papi played it for me even I didn't think I would do the piece. Instead in 20 minutes it came out. So daring a little bit is also about getting out of the comfort zone.
Yes, otherwise you don't make 11 records. If you want to make the same record all the time -- no, you can make the same record all the time, there are people who have careers that have worked like that. But because mine is not really a career, because it's just passion, I can make a record, sit still 4 years. But then when I make it again, it has to have a definite connotation. Now that I have finished this one, I already have an idea to make another one completely different. But, I mean, it's okay to dare because at least the fun part remains for you and for the listener.

What was the impetus, beyond storytelling and introspection, that prompted you to say, “Let's make a record after four years of stopping?”
So I had said it was the last record, the tenth, with vinyl. But because, I mean, because of a theme just of how music is perceived today -- the long distance, maybe even I get a little tired. A long record I don't struggle, especially a rap record. Maybe a rock record of another genre, 15-20 pieces of listening... And then fuck, one maybe makes a record and it takes a year, because between stuff if you don't do that of work it takes at least a year. And then it doesn't last for shit.
And so I said, let's work with singles. But the way I like rap, I realized that working with singles are too small episodes to tell the story. And so I said, fuck it, let's make another record. And that's kind of the summary. The idea now is to do projects like this: no more than 10 pieces, no more than half an hour, which is a compromise between the time you spend on it and how long it then lasts. And then one of the reasons I decided to get back into it was that people wanted it. I didn't have an audience, however, my followers were asking for it. And so at the fury of having to say, “No, it's the last record, I'm just going to make singles,” at some point I said, “You know what? Let's make another record.”.
Of course, it's nice that stimuli also come from outside to do introspection. But in any case, even the audience then wants to hear something of your own. You are used to a certain way of writing, of interpreting pieces. You have your own style, you are recognizable, they still ask you for things. And then it's live as well.

Is it live?
Live. Eh, this is a good thing. I'm getting so much satisfaction live, more now than back in the days. Because back in the days, when the Vibra records were released, which is the period let's say... The Vibra records are the reason why today, I mean, even though I'm an outsider I can still release stuff, thanks to Zeta and thanks to the whole situation, and thanks of course to Bassi. Because then it all started from the famous verse of “Crazy Days.” Of course, the consecration. I'm one of the many who was baptized by Bassi at the right time and then went on his own legs. And live, I mean, I had few opportunities to express myself at that time because there were few live shows, at least I did a few. And now that you have a 300-person live, a 30-person live, I have a lot of energy, I can still do them very well, I have a lot of fun by myself. Papi in console without doubles, mono vocals. And that's the most--there's really the concept of performance there, okay? And then rehearsal, so I get manic. I rehearse 20 times a day if I'm going to do live and I'm interested in that part there working.

“To do live you have to get stuff out, because otherwise you're not newsworthy.”
I'm interested in two aspects, the one first of all the maturity of the rapper, because it's not an obvious aspect. 20 years ago we would never have predicted that we would be here 20 years later in Central Station talking about a new record of yours, the 11th. No one could have predicted, since 20 years ago you were spoken to from behind. “That's right, that's right. Because the editorial staff of Groove, the newspaper that both Sid and I worked for, was right back here. So we met to tell about that and then all the other projects to follow. Now 20 years later... Maturity intellectually, physiologically and also as a rapper, because it changes the way you make music over time.”
So now the good stuff is that rap has become fashionable, yes. So because it's become fashionable it's cleared through customs, okay. And so the fact that things are in fashion that then maybe people from our period don't like, however it creates more space for everybody. So that's a good thing. I mean the good stuff is that my daughter listens to maybe the rappers now, but since they came out with the record she also listens to some Club Dogo songs. Of course, my daughter is 17, and this stuff here is good. I mean this going to pick up stuff-I mean who the fuck would have thought that my daughter in the car would say, “Put on Club Dogo”?
Clear, okay. And this is -- the maturity with which I experience rap now is this one. Which is that it's the genre that my daughter listens to with her peers and it's all the rage on teenagers. When I started in the small town in the province, I mean you were the alien, you were the one who said, “How the fuck does this guy dress?”
Now it's just the opposite. Those who rap are the most popular, the coolest. Also because then everybody now has taken the turn a little bit gangsta, a little bit ... It's cool now to be a rapper. But for me it's a normal thing, it's like breathing. I mean in the sense, it's like riding a bike, you never forget to do it. And so the moment I decide that I have to make pieces, I have to make the record, I go for it. I feel responsibility for what I write, however, I felt this stuff even in my twenties, so it's not a problem for me.
What I want to avoid doing is to do what comes back with the old school experience but is only able to criticize. So on this stuff in my opinion you have to be very careful, because even the most commercial things today have something to teach. Even the thing that maybe then says, “Whatever, this word is too pushy”... I try to listen to those too, it's not that I pump them up, I listen to understand them. You take something home with you, though.
So I live it like this: I listen, I also hear the new stuff. But clearly then the thing that I want to listen to again are the sounds a little bit more--a little bit closer to me. J Cole, to give you an idea, a synthesis of a rapper that I really like, who uses modern sounds yet has a fairly classical setting.

We were saying on the one hand the maturity of doing rap, and therefore that it's an approachable sport even over 40. I would say it's an achievement of the scene of 20 years ago approaching nowadays. So many 40-year-old rappers who are good, still good, still good... It comes to me to say: never stopped being, always current.

The other thing I'm interested in instead-I know you work out a lot, you have a relationship with your physique not as a sitting 40-year-old but as an active 40-year-old, let's say. And that also probably has to do with your desire to express yourself live. It's a form of confidence with your ability to hold a stage on a physical level, on a breath level, aerobic performance.

Eventually, yes, because I have been working out for as long as I can remember, practically since I started publishing records. In parallel I also started to approach the world of the gym. And yes, the concept of performance I have it mostly for live performances. The breath, that stuff there I still like. Then I realize that not everybody catches it, however, those who catch it, understand it, then they get gassed. So you said the right word: the concept of performance is also applied to doing live rap.

What are you pumping now?
So now I'm pretty infused with half-country stuff. Okay, Jelly Roll...

Of course, Yellow Wolf.

Jelly Roll who has now made this evolution, he has basically gone to country. The last records are country, which I discovered a few years ago. He had no idea of the sounds I was using. A white rapper, try humming, however he was doing New School stuff anyway. So that evolution there I like, an evolution that doesn't have a damn thing to do with me.
But it is true...

Yes but no, musically no. I'm curious about the concept of country.

You were always the one who always lived outside the city....
Whatever, that is a province, a countryside. They are two different things but somehow they have a suburban approach.

Suburban yes. It is true, though, and also intimista. Also of recounting a reality that is not that...
Well that one is, of the sfatica. Because if you hear the Jelly Roll stuff it's very personal, I mean it speaks a lot about him. I meant more the singing part, that one I used in some chorus. But it's not really singing, it's a little more melodic reppata. That stuff there is cool, though. And from there I'm trying to explore other country stuff, which I don't like all of it because some of it is really old-time country. And other stuff--Whatever J Cole, I'm always pumping up good old QG Rap. I'm catching up on Outcast so much, I'm in a very catch-up phase. But to say even Joyner Lucas...

Yes.

Which is cool. And then a lot of rappers coming out of Albert. I can think of -- now the problem with music now is that by not buying records, I have a hard time remembering the artists' names and titles.
I have a playlist with “Within the World.” There are a lot of lesser rappers who are doing, in my opinion, very cool stuff. Like the always Dreamville tour, there's Lute, Goats who are very cool. But Rison that manage to have a good compromise between modern sounds and things that are a little bit older, more Golden Age.
I got a little bit sick of it, but not because I don't like it, I got a little bit sick of the Griselda ride which is a little bit standardized. Of them, which is not even Griselda anymore, I like Benny.

Of course, he is so cool because he also brings out different sounds now and then. The record the one he did should be “Trust the Sopranos” which has productions...

That's right, which has very ’80s-taste productions, however particular samples. That stuff there is brilliant. They don't say shit however it's done well.

Of course, because now it's kind of standardized that kind of rap. So a lot of people try it that way, but it comes out so much-you can't even keep up with it, you can't even keep up with it.
Then there's a really cool one that I have here, I'll show you. Let's use the smartphone for once, for something non-interruptive. This one here, this one is crazy in my opinion. I found out to you because he is a strong one, like this one here Alligatorelli Shotti. It's always quite a country thing because you talk about....
No, no, no. It's like a griseldata though, it's Florida, so it's something from Florida that does that. To say a lot of stuff like that you don't even know who the fuck they are, however you save them and you listen to them.
It fits. Whatever, Logic.
Clear. Whatever, this one, come on. You get -- then this is my Vasco playlist.
Well, this one can't be missed. I was always very much inspired by Big Hit, the father of Hit Boy.
Yeah, this is Jelly Roll, Jelly Lucas, this one, this one, Paul Walker. I never gave a shit about him because he had teeth back in the day... I was saying, who's this jerk? Instead he's cool as hell, this record that's the bomb.
And then here I downloaded all my stuff, so when people ask me for it I show them. And this one -- this one is the playlist that anybody should have. For me a playlist is the best records. So there's this one Outkast, Neffa, which you can't miss, Mobb Deep.

Okay, we should make this a regular column. Open New York, Tupac also. Well, there's no shortage of these things here.

I was interested because I think for you, too, rap is always a quest, both of writing and content, and of allure in general. The musical right at 100%. And so you can't stop studying if you want to do it, otherwise you would really make 11 records all the same, because you are you and finished, that's it.
Instead it's an open circle from which you always learn to hit. And so much to old stuff that back in the day maybe I didn't quite get it, sometimes you get a lot more inspiration from that than new stuff. Because anyway there's a lot of stuff that came out back in the day and then I experienced it differently. Lil Wayne -- back in the day you would already just look at the covers and say, “What is this stuff here?”
And so maybe you would stop there because you would say, “Whatever, East Coast.” Then fuck, I still don't like it that much, however if you listen to the lyrics it's a Madonna quality. It's not my stuff, and so the research is also that. You don't necessarily have to like something then, however you take a piece of that stuff there and try to make it your own.
I kind of do that and I'm trying to fish at other genres as well, because especially in the background, driving or normal moments, maybe sometimes it's more even classic rock stuff that opens you up a little bit more. Rap is...
They are part of the classical background and it fits. And even there with the years I opened up a little bit, because back in the days, ’No cool, a rock record, figure that,“ it's not B-Boy. Instead then it's not, it's not like that. So you have to listen to the stuff from other genres as well, because then you will regret it.
And listen to Ape's record, too!

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I will also sign up because I am not subscribed yet. I will put it up and I will also sign up for the mailing list. Although I can say I have such a stack of AL, so I the old articles I have original.

Perfect, thank you Bee.
See you at the next one.