Toni Zeno – Smart kids

Toni Zeno for Aelle Magazine, thank you for joining us and this is the right thing.

Laugh: I want to start with the now: what are you working on right now? Because we interviewed some of your colleagues who revolve around your world, and I know there are things in the pipeline.

Tony Zeno: I'm doing a giant no spoiler. I can only say that what has been seen coming out so far, the stuff with Pessimo and Luca, that's not all, it doesn't end there. Otherwise, I have a lot of other nice folders, nice names on the computer. I will be doing a general purge of all the material stored on Logic shortly.

Laugh: You live and record in Sicily, but you work a lot with people who gravitate to the Milanese world in general.

Tony Zeno: Yes, even Tony Zeno.

Laugh: That's right, in the North, right now the big hub of music and rap, so also in Italy. What is it like to work remotely, even though then the distances are short?

Tony Zeno: More than anything else you should ask them, because for me it's wonderful: I get the folder and I get things ready. This year I've had to slow down a little bit for things, as I said before, however, it's always a magical thing because the guys send me things designed especially for me, they pamper me so much, from Torso to Jewels to Alea, whoever the person I'm working with is. For me it's the bomb, out of any perspective I thought I would even get to work with people who are 2,000 miles away and still want to make you do cool things. It's not a given, they could put their money on another 20,000 horsepower and I'm glad it's there.

Laugh: You were saying that you have so many folders that identify nuances of your personality, the way you write, the way you interpret pieces, the way you collaborate with others, so they give you opportunities to express yourself and to play. Do you have experience in that?

Tony Zeno: Rap is such a varied form of expression that people who approach it can't think I'm always going to be doing 70 bpm pianissimo thumpers. You need stuff that inspires in all aspects and I take like a sponge from every corner of culture, north to south, east to west, the most classic stuff, the newest stuff. I'm a middle child and I try not to bind myself to one type of sound, partly because I don't do contract rap, consequently I would get bored making a record that is always the same. It's not my sport. I also made the record with Ale, just to completely vary the sounds and because we had something else in our heads that wasn't what the audience was already used to. I like to see the effect in the listener of a completely different approach, who was expecting the fat vittone and instead there is everything else. It's good to vary, to mix. There's the identity talk of making music, of giving yourself a chance to have more facets, to not be a block of granite. If I was born in downtown Memphis, I would do the Memphis stuff and stop, but we're in Italy, the sonic influences are endless, both in Italian and American rap, consequently we can't say that one city has a distinct sound, unless you come to Milan and you're looking for that urban, street sound, more raw. For the rest, you have to draw from the culture. Obviously with the necessary know-how, because if it's not done with a specific ethos there's no point in taking random stuff. So yes, we mix because there is no one sound in Italy, there is no one type of producer, and as long as I have the opportunity to work on it, I will put out all the different beats in the world.

Laughs: There's not even a market that demands the same thing all the time, because if listeners are curious it's nice to give them to hear different things. I think more and more meat needs to be put on the fire so that people can make their own minds up and understand that there is a cup of tea for everyone in listening to music, that it's not all channeled to something that has to be compulsorily that because it's big or small passing, or that the fact that it's up is immediately a demerit. You have to understand that there is so much quality out there, there are so many guys and gals doing every genre and kicking ass. If people start approaching listening in a more cultural way and not from fast food, that's good, no doubt things other than what they're feeding you on the charts are coming, too. In your personal life, between work, affections, life in the south, recordings, collaborations in the north, what position does rap have from your human, expressive point of view, at what time of day does it come?

Tony Zeno: It's always there. I wake up with mixes and masters made the night before, with beats from a lifetime of listening. In this period I did a giant mix of everything, I was in the office all day with the beats in my ears or out and about. I can't get rap down in the positions, it's an existential driving force. Even people around me know how important it is to me, because it is a human phase that I need, even for things beyond work, even just listening, analyzing on records, it is a personal moment. On a cultural level, rap is even higher on the priority list, because it is my training band. I don't have any other examples in my head than my own or other people's bars, for me it is a formative existential band. Today there are days where I have to pander to the needs of my family, the people around me, because if we have chosen to live a decent life it is because we are useful to the people around us. As a result, I can't always say, “I'm going to record today,” however, I am always operational. It happens to me many times that the crazy shots, like the group of families in an interior with Gioielli, is recorded in my Lancia Ypsilon, with the microphone and computer. Gioielli told me, “Don't change anything.” I don't even have special studios, I have a microphone, a home station where I record, and it can be any time of the day if I'm at home. I like this definition of rap as a place of the mind, which doesn't need a studio, doesn't need infrastructure. I spent a lifetime telling myself I didn't have the means to do things, then I started doing them and saw that I didn't need all the things I was convinced I needed, I just needed ideas. Things then take shape and people come to the things that were really raw, that made me say, “This is the stuff I'm looking for.” In fact, I already feel privileged that there are three people listening to my stuff recorded in the Spear, so the more that come, the better. I don't put too much weight on it, I don't think I have to do it professionally with the footage and the vocals like that. The professional has to be defined.

Laugh: It gives you the space to grow on your own, without feedback from others that will come later, however, there is that reflective moment.

Tony Zeno: Yes, it's a time when I'm frustrated while I'm recording, while I'm writing, because I feel a bit of a maniac for perfection, but I'm not looking for it. I just have to adapt to get along with the things I do, maybe they go well right away. For example, when ’Pokemele“ with Zonta and Mella came out, I kept it in my computer a month because I thought it sucked. The kids heard it and said, ”The stuff rocks.“ So I said, ”Maybe I'm limited by my listening, by the fact that I expect the stuff to sound like Rakim, but it's not good if it sounds different.“.

Laugh: Mandatory, that is.

Tony Zeno: It's a matter of perspective and what you expect from what you do. I started because I wanted to do, consequently I didn't care too much how they listened to me, the important thing was that they listened to me, even if the voice was croaky. Those who want to get to certain things get there without pretense, without saying, “Ah, but the quality is not 44-10-40+.” The beauty is in the hands and ears that understand the intrinsic quality of the work, not the technical quality, which is always relative. We listen to records recorded in the 1960s that are rotten, but beautiful. That's what music is made of, especially rap, which is an internal human regurgitation, consequently it cannot be a perfect thing, with everything in its right place. If everything is in its place, I'm afraid, because that means it's like a package of tampons in the supermarket: someone has to buy. I try to make sure that there is the element, the gem that is communicating those things, that is not perfect. You see Luix, you see all the references a little bit. It's not perfect, but it's perfect because its perfection is made by being the voice of that kind of feeling and movement, it's not made by the fact that it's nice and clean, in the studio. Consequently, it is not a question of how much you spend on it, it is an incisive factor, but it is not what you are looking for in art, it is not that extra quid. In fact, that perfection that we are used to from pop music, from some kinds of contemporary art, we almost need to shortcut it.

Laugh: It has to be.

Tony Zeno: So are the images, which are so defined that you say “let's put a filter on them.” Everything too perfect is all too plastic, but I don't distinguish between underground and mainstream, I evaluate the quality of the ideas, which are the fundamental thing. Unfortunately, we are in a moment in history where the quality of ideas is mediocre and consequently the people who are in charge are also mediocre. I understand that so many people have a clear sense that they are worth more than what they are fed, but few have the human function to go out and find it. Some find it on their own, some find it with nothing. But our role, when I was a kid, was to have artists who gave me a different human perspective, gave you something like, “You have to make yourself operational in the world to improve your situation and don't screw up.” Those things we've already done and seen, now it's time to act consciously and be useful to others and to ourselves. I grew up with this ideal of rap, and if even one person can see himself or herself in what I do and that's what these artists represented to me, even if it's just on a scale of 1 to 150, that's crazy.

Laugh: One of the difficulties of being in another region, of living in Sicily, is not being able to engage with people live, in live shows.

Tony Zeno: Unfortunately, the movement from Rome on down has a lack of...

Laughter: It's clear. Then there are so many expressive spaces, it's difficult....

Tony Zeno: It is very different than before. Unfortunately, you go from things that are closely related. You come from an arrangement of culture where there was that thing ...

Laugh: Cool, let's go, let's move, let's mobilize and let's feel like artist X.

Tony Zeno: Now it depends on the followers, how many people bring you to the venue. Even I have people who say, “I listen to you, I run venues, I would like to call you to play,” but if you call me, you don't make money because 30 people come. I also try to meet people, I understand the types of needs. Today in Sicily it is very difficult, because it pulls only the mainstream. If Salmo comes, if Gioliè comes, they move a thousand, two thousand people, which is not even that many compared to northern Italy. As a result it is more complex, especially because of the desire. Down there what I do doesn't exist. They ask, “Why don't you go to work?” As a result, the place has such an attachment to reality that it does not conceive of certain situations until you win. If you win, you come back and they're all like, “I knew it.” And that makes me say, “I'm running on empty.” I mean, as much as it may have a personal and physical implication on me and my family, it's a limitation to interact with my context. The kids are in Milan meeting, watching the industry come up. I am in Sicily, waiting for people to do tourism. The two things clash. I always have the fotta going over my head, though. Being down is negative because it doesn't give you a chance to do live and be operational in the movement. You can lose your compass and say, “I could also do something else with much more results,” however, it is not results we are talking about.

Laugh: The results are something else.

Tony Zeno: If I want money, I go to work.

Laugh: You are lucky to have the opportunity to engage with people who rap as well as you do, who understand what you do, who give you things to do, who stimulate you.

Tony Zeno: It is the great fortune to have the consideration of the people I was listening to. Even just being able to text and ask, “Do you like this shit?” I understand that stuff is not done like that because you have to do it, you have to catch each other, get to know each other on a human level and see if there is a possibility of human and artistic intermingling. For me even just having the recognition of the people I listen to, from Blobby to Jewels, Johnny Marseilles, Mad Buddy, is an inexplicable luxury. The thing is cultural, it's no longer about how many stadiums I fill, it's about what you get. Then, if one fills a stadium, fine, if you don't fill it, whatever.

Laugh: Thank you very much for the talk, see you around.

Tony Zeno: Half a word.