DJ ENZO

By Silvia Volpato
AL 36 May 1999

15 years of Hip Hop, and it's no joke, especially when you think that DJ Enzo has never been still for a moment. The story begins on the road, where Enzo grew up, the son of immigrants, he like so many, with his back to the concrete, to learn how to make a mill, with his fingers sometimes smeared with paint, with his heart to the music...

those who know him know that, even today, Enzo only needs to see any of these things to be happy,  But happy in earnest. The story continues with two turntables, a mixer and a mountain of vinyl, the kind that slowly paper your walls, that make you feel good just looking at them... then comes an Akai 950, one of those contraptions that, inexplicably, change your life and become the centerpiece of your home, of your existence. Then there is everything you already know, The Committee, Chief And Associates, All For One... so many jams, so many club nights, so many concerts... now, a microphone has also officially entered Enzo's life, because Enzo wants to tell everyone that he feels he is in a ‘parallel world,’ and that maybe it is time to break through the barrier separating the two worlds... 

“There are times when one would have to say a lot of things but then at the same time you don't get to say a f**k. Right now ... seeing how the situation is ...”

- What do you mean by ‘situation’?

“I mean everything in general, the problem is not just the Italian scene, it goes beyond that, it starts from the labels, from the discographers, from people buying records, from record prices and a lot of other things. Everything has become too sectoral, there are the usual people talking to each other, making records with each other, smapping with each other. It's all closed. I'm talking about Italians in general because for me Hip Hop here is such a small thing that there is really little to say... there are two or three groups that sell... but do you guys realize? The problem is that when one makes music he does it for everyone, not for the 10 people he knows, otherwise what the f**k are they making records for. But look, I would do a four-page NO COMMENT on this stuff.”

- Is this a subject that bothers you? Do you think it is sterile to talk about these things?

“No, look, what really bothers me is that in Italy we always tend to give people the same product, no one dares to go off certain tracks because you get crushed at the start anyway. I have tried to propose new things to the insiders, what they always tell you is ‘the piece that is selling right now has the chorus sung like this, so you have to make the chorus sung like this.’ But how do you know my stuff is not going if you don't promote it first, if you don't push it a little bit!’

- So the decision is made for auto productions....

“And no, here's the beauty of it, even people who might venture new things in this way don't because, in their own little way, even within the Hip Hop of the underground smazzo a stuff has been created whereby you still have to meet certain standards that are imposed on you-it's absurd.”

- So do you find that the production cars coming out now all travel a little bit on the same track? 

“Mah... I find basically that there are some people who are really talented, but very often they work with rotten material, you hear stuff that doesn't sound, that doesn't give you anything... maybe you can tell that there is a good idea in the sample, however, it's all poorly worked. Quality is a key thing, which then it doesn't take a billion studio. And then the thing that's missing is really the content ... boh, it may be my thinking, but in my opinion nobody says interesting stuff.”

- Is that one of the reasons why you took up the microphone this time?

“No, it's not like I'm Berlusconi saying ‘I'm going to take the field now’ no, there are people who are kicking my ass rapping and I'm aware of that, I'm not an mc. I had things to say and I put them down in rhyme because I was tired of saying them to myself in the mirror, I want people to know. It's my own thing.’

- Do you expect any particular reaction from the audience who will hear you rapping in earnest for the first time?

“No, I just tried to think of what situations I could describe so that people could identify with it. I think the kids who have been through the same situation as me as an immigrant, coming from Naples, leaving school early to work, are many. I did it because I would like to show them, who may now be standing on a street corner dealing, that there are other ways as well and at the same time to make those who live in a more affluent situation understand that there is also another reality that should be known and not judged.”

- Look, I was re-reading the interview you gave to AL a year and a half ago, and it's clear that a lot has changed for you since then, not only professionally. What is Enzo's state of mind as a person and as a professional now?

“I've discovered things in me that I didn't know I had, but I'm always a little bit disappointed inside, and I reiterate that I'm not just talking about Hip Hop because I [bleep] don't just live among people who do Hip Hop, I also live in a [bleep] country where most people about ’this stuff don't know or understand about it. I live in a parallel world and I can't forget that there is another situation around me. People still don't quite understand the middle ground between these two things. We scramble between ‘underground‘ and ’commercial,‘ and outside people think we're jerks ... boh. I may be one of the few who believe in the middle way as a solution...I make an appeal to those who think like me: let's get together and do something together, I believe in it.’

- You in these things have the pulse of the situation also because you have played for a lot of years in clubs frequented not only by b-boys, you have never closed yourself exclusively in the reality of jams. In this sense you are definitely one of the most experienced people in Italy, and I think this is a very important topic. How do you see the eternal struggle between clubs and Hip Hop music in our country?

“It's kind of the same hassle as making a record, the club manager doesn't care what music you play, he wants his track nice and full. The argument is right, in part. See how we always come back to the ’middle ground’ I was telling you before? Okay, I put you Faith Evans, Puff Daddy, because I have to please everybody, however, then I also place the underground piece in it so that people get used to hearing another sound as well. People have to be educated slowly, that's the only way, the problem is they don't let you do that either. There was never a time that at the end of the night they didn't come up to me and say I was too heavy. I'll tell you more, it used to be easier, now people are used to dancing only what they see in the videos ... you just put on one record, no matter how good, that they don't know and ... poof ... they disappear. Excuse me if I DMX played it for a month straight before it came out because I had it on promo and no one danced to it...the video came out, he all nice and stylish, and now all it takes is for people to hear DMX's voice to start screaming. I broke my co****ni of ‘this thing, now I'm stopped because I had to work on the album, but I'll only start playing again if I find the right situation. Anyway, I absolutely love playing music, and for me any medium that serves to spread Hip Hop culture is so important, and getting people to dance in clubs is a key thing. Ciso, I want to nominate him, in my opinion he is a very good DJ, he can hold the nights like hell, technically there are people even better than him, but maybe they are not able to hold a track. But you try a little bit playing in the same place for years in a row. Ciso has allowed a lot of people to discover Hip Hop. I'm looking for my own channels to be able to popularize this, I'm also hoping to find another radio station that will allow me to do a show. But I like everything about Hip Hop, I also like to breakkate now and then, I break my bones a little bit because I don't train...I would still like to go train, it's not like I was ever good at painting however I used to go and fill in my friends writers pieces. Now I don't feel like it anymore because you know, I have a daughter and I have to think about her, I can't afford to catch some charges, however, I miss those emotions there sometimes, the competing with others... “

- How do you feel about the competition today?

“I used to like competition, today it doesn't exist, today it has turned into hatred, pure hatred -- and hatred makes you lose objectivity.”

- You had said in the interview for “In Studio” that you no longer have a clique-I know that many of the disappointments you have with people came to you because of “All For One.” Would you like to tell how things turned out?

“Yes, go easy, I don't have a problem telling it like it is: my friends, my friends... you get it, or at least I thought they were my friends... I mean, we did some things together, I was even eating and sleeping at some of these people's houses, and they at my place... well, these people after I decided to have Spaghetti Funk participate in the album stopped making my phone ring, they took to looking at me badly and treating me differently. The names I don't want to name them because this is something I regret too much, dj Enzo has always remained dj Enzo, from the time of the Committee to today. It is true that ’All For One“ was made differently than I would have liked, there were too many filters, but I have never changed. I simply tried to make a project that involved all the people I knew, and I asked everybody, I asked everybody: Neffa, the Colle, Kaos, Sean, Area Cronica... almost everybody agreed, then when they heard that Article 31 would be there too, many dropped out.

But this can also be legitimate, everyone does what they believe, what hurt me is that I was told that I was not making the compilation to unite the scene, but for business. So ... now it's been a year and a half and I would like to answer these people ... you tell me how come I'm not in Spaghetti Funk today, how come I ended the contract with BMG, how come I didn't do the second part of “All For One”? I'll tell you; because that was an attempt to unite the scene and I was disappointed by all the controversy that was made against me. I don't have a problem saying that I want to make a living from Hip Hop, but that's what we all hope to be able to do-live off our art, but that doesn't mean I used that principle for my album. Ax and I have always been friends, that's why I wanted them, if I have the chance and the desire to work with them in the future I will definitely do it and I don't care what the scene thinks. For me there is no such thing as ‘commercial,’ for me there is good and bad, regardless of everything else.”

- Back to the ‘middle ground’ talk...

“Yeah f**k, we could do the whole interview on this middle ground. The speech is that I was born in the underground, I admire the underground and I never forget what the undergound is and I keep making stuff that is underground because it is stuff that I feel inside, however, I am also open to all other things. I like lasagna, but if you tell me ‘Enzo, look that Chinese food is also good,’ okay, I taste it, but I still like lasagna, I take note that there are other flavors, I also taste the whole menu, but then I will always come back from lasagna. I take note that there is not only the underground, there are people who refuse to recognize it. The middle ground is really the main point of the whole thing, the point no one has ever bothered to get to.”

- Is that what you attempted then to do with ’Parallel Worlds“?

“Definitely. I've tried to bring things closer together, to bring the two worlds closer together... I've tried, now let's see what happens... but I will always continue to do.”

- Are you planning to produce anyone?

“By far, there's Double K here who has already worked with me and I'd like to release his album...I'd also like to work with Italian artists who don't do Hip Hop.”

- For example?

“For example, I would like to work with Almamegretta. I met Raiss and I had a great time with him. However I would do it within the canons of Hip Hop. I always bring up the sacred monster Dj Premiere, for example the remix he did for Janet Jackson is beautiful because he kept the atmosphere of the song with the sounds that belong to Hip Hop... or even N'Dea Davenport with Guru... mi****a, those are the stylistic crossovers that should be done because these are the things that can reach people who still don't understand what Hip Hop is, so they get used to the sounds, then when they hear DMX or Mobb Depp's snare at least they already have it in their ears and slowly, it's very slow stuff, however slowly they get closer to accepting even the heavier stuff. There are mechanisms that regulate people's taste, if one is not born with this stuff inside one can get used to it, because anyway it is right that even in Italy Hip Hop has its own recognized position like all the other musical genres.”

- What are the people who are close to DJ Enzo now?

“Definitely Double and Bubble, who are my friends ... then ... whatever, I can say this one ... the ghost I have in the house.”

- Ghost? Please, let's talk about it...

“I swear... I have a ghost in the house. Doppia says that sometimes he gets into my sampler and gives me tips...no, joking aside I can't explain it, what the f**k do I know, I feel a presence, it's a matter of sensations...don't ask me more because I can't explain it...anyway I have a ghost in the house. Coming back down to earth I would like to talk about Doppia because in this album he pretty much did everything with me. He's someone who's been around me for a tot...which then you see, I can't differentiate Hip Hop from my life with people, we're in this stuff together, otherwise we wouldn't be so connected.”

- You in Italy worked with a lot of people and went through very different situations and people....

“Eh yes ... but I'm still in relationships with almost everyone, I feel with everyone, some more, some less ... especially after the All for One stories, it goes like this.“

- Is there anyone you feel you can define as a person who has really enriched you, who has taught you something?

“Look ... I learned by experience on my own, as a b-boy on the streets and that's stuff that ... you know, you only learn that way ... however, then throughout my life in Hip Hop ... yeah. There are the people who have taught me, who have been important. Next One is one of them, recently we had some misunderstandings, but I can't forget that he helped me, he gave me good tips... then unfortunately there are some things in life that lead to discord, it can happen, but I'm sorry, I'm sorry that these things happen... I'm too sorry. Gruff also taught me a lot of things, we hung out for a while, we used to scratch together. The rest I learned on my own ... Next was the most important person also because with him I went to New York, I went to Crazy Legs and he introduced me to all those people. Regardless of how things are now, I don't forget anything. Then there's Ciso who taught me how to hold an evening ... Ciso is a great person, not just a good DJ.” 

- So we can talk a little bit with Double K now, shall we tell your story a little bit Double?

Double K: “I had the first contact with Hip Hop in ‘92/’93, not as an mc but as a writer and I approached it without knowing anything else. Then I started buying the first records ... at the beginning it was all to discover, you know I'm from Bergamo and it's not like being in Milan that already in those days there was a developed situation.”

- How old are you?

Double K: “I'm 21 years old. That's why I approached Hip Hop differently from Enzo ... when I started it was all ... the right term is ‘poisoned,’ it was all already poisoned, filtered, with too many conflicts.

I recorded a few demos, without thinking that it would become something more. I had experience with several people in Bergamo, but the turning point came when I met Enzo, about three years ago. So many things that I didn't see and didn't know I got to know through him. Then it all came naturally to me, it's something I like, I do it but I don't feel like a mc yet, the more I do it the more I realize I have to learn...”

Enzo: “Now it seems like we are being humble on purpose, but the term ‘mc’ is a really big definition to give someone. A mc is someone who entertains people. Remember Doug E. Fresh at the Palladium? Mi****a, that showed everybody what a mc is and the difference between a mc and a rapper. That's all I'll add.”

- The problem, as you were also saying a little while ago, is that there are a lot of kids coming out with crazy demos where you don't even understand what they are saying, except that they want to ‘rock’. Maybe it would be more fair to follow a certain path, and only come out when you are ready to offer something with a minimum of quality and content. How do you decide if and when it is appropriate to produce someone new, as you did for Double K?

“If I have to produce and bring up a guy from nothing, this person first has to become my friend, I first have to know what he thinks, how he lives these things ... after that we can talk about making records and so on. Double didn't come to me asking for basics, we met and became friends, the rest came later. My philosophy is to bring up people who believe in the same things I believe in, not to take the first good kid and make a business out of it. It was one thing to make a compilation with artists I already knew and respected anyway, it's one thing to produce a new kid. I don't go around saying ‘who's the best mc here? Is it you?’ Nice one, I'm dj Enzo, let's make a record together, come to my clique we are the best”, this is done by other people, I prefer to know people and then if I see that we hear the same things, maybe a record can be there too, but I don't go to enlist the best, this is not what Hip Hop taught me. Things happen, I need to share this energy to believe in someone."

- Has it always been like that for you since the Committee days?

“Yes, Zippo and I knew each other from before, we used to go to jams together, then he started rapping in Italian, but at the time there was nothing, we did it because it seemed like a good idea, other than business. Chief and Associates? In the beginning I was supposed to do for Chief just some basics and play for him live, after the Committee I didn't want to do any more stuff, he contacted me and then hanging out, learning to esteem each other, we decided to do the project as it came out. Before business there is always friendship, or at least total respect. Besides, it's not necessarily the case that after you and I get to know each other, we necessarily have to work together.”

- Did you and Double write almost all the pieces of the album together?

“Yes, the 70%, I would write the first part, give the base to Double, he would read, listen, and go. His thinking is the same as mine but, of course, it is said in his own way, in his own style. Impossible to disagree except on platitudes. He has a much more bastard flow than mine, he cuts rhymes like Big Noyd, scary. The only disagreements we had were when he told me he wanted to do a 40-song album and I told him it couldn't be done, then when I wanted to do a 20-minute piece because I had too much to say and he said “mi****a, make it shorter!’... (laughter).”

- Is there a definite idea of when Double K's album may be released?

Enzo: “No, there is no rush, maybe next year, maybe in five years. We have the project, it will be done.”

Double K: “But I realized while working that there are too many things to put in place before I can come out as a solo artist. Then I don't get into writing because I have deadlines, I do it because it comes naturally to me, when I have satisfactory material we'll talk seriously about it.”

Enzo: “Sorry, listening to Double I was thinking that if I could start “Parallel Worlds” again now I would make it better...mi****a, as soon as I finish a job I already think about what I learned and that's the beauty of it because as long as a b-boy has the will to start again then Hip Hop will go on. When someone says they feel like they have arrived, it means their career in Hip Hop is already over, I will never feel like I have arrived.”

- By the way, in this case, you have started again in several respects, not the least of which is the fact that you changed labels by moving to “Baby Records.” Let's talk about this new contract of yours?

“I am satisfied because they didn't really put their hands in my album, however, of course, as in all contracts, there are clauses that give the label the power to do whatever the f**k they want with it in the future. This is something I would like to explain to kids, I think it's useful. If you have a car, you built and painted it yourself, then you sell it to a guy, you have to know that the guy then can do whatever he wants with the car, he can make it a different color, he can put other rims on it... In these cases as far as labels are concerned you have to go a little bit on your ass because you have to find a producer who respects your ideas, one who says maybe, ’but yeah, we'll keep the car like this, let's just make the wheels a little bit bigger that way it holds the road better.‘ At Baby Records they helped me without getting in the way of my work, however they always have this card in their hand so if they want to release a house remix by DJ Enzo tomorrow I can't do anything about it. These are the contracts you have to accept until you have sold a certain amount of copies, then you can make the rules. That's how it works in the beginning, I signed three contracts and I always found this thing, it was there with BMG, with Polygram for the Committee it was there.’

- It is a big problem for younger kids to be able to find their way in an environment of laws, clauses, figures... 

“I was seeing the other day in an interview that in America Lauryn Hill has set up an office within the Refugee Camp Foundation, where kids can talk to lawyers to find out anything about contracts, to get advice... you have to talk about these things, I'm giving some tips, I will continue to do so. In my opinion artists who have credibility within the scene or who have media attention should talk about ’this stuff instead of mi****ate. I read some interviews recently...look...without naming names...actually no, but let's name ’em, and here I'm responding to Vez who says that no one names names...okay; I read the Melma E Merda interview and I didn't even understand what they were talking about. I don't want to attack anybody, I just want to say, Deda I know you, Sean I know you, Kaos I know you too, you are smart people and you know a lot about music and everything else, but why don't you tell the guys how it is, why don't you give them some tips instead of talking about Auntie ... nonso? They hold the reins of the underground, if they don't talk about it who should ?‘ 

- Do you think one should always try to give a message?

“I have deep respect for people who do things to help or educate others, but for me a piece that makes people dance is also educational, and I thank Puff Daddy for making a lot of people dance, I thank Pete Rock and Premiere for making a lot of people jump. I talk about American people because in my opinion in Italy nobody has done these things yet. The speech is that there is a need for everything in Hip Hop, even the soft stuff and R&B.”

- Have you always thought this way or is it something that came with age, with experience?

“But I've always liked R&B, I like it to be with chicks, dance to it in clubs...we need more openness, what I regret most about Hip Hop in Italy is that it has too much of a teenage image, it should have a more adult audience. I would like us to be considered not only by thirteen-year-olds, also because I personally think that a thirteen-year-old boy might have difficulty understanding one of my lyrics where I talk about what happened to me in life, how I grew up, that at 14 I was a bricklayer and at 15 I was selling on street corners... I would like my record to be bought by a person my age, who then maybe makes his younger brother listen to it and teaches him how it is... it is my wish. Unfortunately the Article, the Twins and the Undertones have this image, but if you go and listen to all the lyrics you also see that there is a lot of heavier stuff in there, however, the single then always remains the teenage song. Then I don't know if it's their compromise or if it's what they like.‘

- Do you have something to add, something I haven't asked you but you want to let people know?

“I'm not mad at anyone... if instead of hating ourselves we would think more about building, maybe this image of dumb-ass greenhorns with baggy jeans wouldn't exist, Hip Hop would be at another level here in Italy, there would be another interest from the media and record companies about us and we could definitely do things more the way we like them... and you all know what I'm talking about. We need something more concrete, something that will help people to approach this genre... then, if after this interview someone proves that they didn't understand, then it will mean that for the umpteenth time I am right.”