De La Soul > The Magic Number

By Paola “ZKR” Zukar

AL 48 July - August 2000

“There's no desire to have fun around anymore... The sense of humor, which was one of the cornerstones at the birth of Hip Hop, seems to have vanished from almost all the albums... It's a great shame.”

Says Trugoy dejectedly, now become simply Dave, as if to corroborate the hypothesis above. Indeed, things have changed not a little in the twelve years or so since the release of the album that is regarded as the dividing line between the old school and the new school: “3 Feet High And Rising” (1989) with its collage-like, absurd, surreal, intricate, thick, and utterly innovative construction would forever change the conception (and the scope) of Hip Hop. Trugoy The Dove after twelve years not only goes by his first name again, but is also far less deluded by what the present may hold in store for him. De La Soul--one of the few groups that really needs no introduction, even outside the strictly Hip Hop environment, since ‘the outside’ they have been actively living it for many years.

Despite their immense popularity, the three members of the group remained very close to their roots and firmly determined to continue together on an artistic path not without bumps and bumps: after their enlightening and triumphant debut, De La were in the crosshairs for quite some time, targeted by critics/journalists (‘nice this Hip Hop Hippy style!’), by the mc's of the day (‘what the f@##o the little flowers on the cover and the French lessons on the record mean to me?!’) and by the public itself, who would have liked even more ‘daisies’ and loops excerpted from Daryl Hall and John Oates, and instead they ended up with a second album declaring “De La Soul Is Dead” (1991), De La La's dead...

Seemingly not a little confused by the whole situation, they would title their third effort “Buhloone Mindstate” (1993), ‘mental state in the balloon,’ without anyone realizing that they were dealing with a real gem of music and concept: inside this album, which passed almost unnoticed, there are small masterpieces, proving that De La were far from defunct, on the contrary... Always supervised by the uncontrollable and visionary genius of Prince Paul (by far one of the most ingenious producers in the history of Hip Hop, and perhaps because of this he never managed to find his own stable and balanced personal dimension), De La Soul once again have it in their hands: by creating the single “Ego Trippin’ (Part 2),” they ruthlessly, but always witty and funny, analyze the absurdity of a certain rap imagery of the moment made up of easy womanizing, nonexistent opulence and an absolutely outsized cult of personality...

The final sales result, however, fell short of expectations, and the spirits of the three artists, despite the positive reviews they received for the LP, soured, partially losing that sarcastic streak that had hitherto distinguished them. Their fourth album takes itself seriously, very seriously, even titling itself “Stakes Is High” (1996), ‘the stakes are high,’ and is almost a denunciation of everything that now characterizes current music, with no longer too much desire to amiably mock those mc's who feed on their own image and the big business generated by the rap industry. Four years have passed since then, and in a hot summer of 2000 “Art Official Intelligence” is about to be released: the group still consists of three members, Pos, Dave and Maseo, but the project is more ambitious than ever.... Despite the fact that all of them are over 30, show some white hairs or a really shiny boccia head, have large families and bureaucratic commitments (given their personal record labels) as well as artistic ones, it seems to me that they have not at all lost the taste for being together, entertaining in live shows and still communicating what comes to them from within because De La Soul still means ‘from the soul,’ once again digging into the more joyful and fun aspect that inherently belongs to the very fact of creating music.

“Art Official Intelligence” will be a triple album that with a play on words means ʻartificial intelligenceʼ but also the official intelligence of art... What is it really about? Pos: “Itʼs a triple album, but the three sections will be separate: the first album will be released on August 7, while the others will follow shortly after; the idea of doing a triple work came to us trying to test ourselves, we wanted to be motivated by something new, and to our knowledge, no one has ever done such a thing. We weren't sure that the record company (still Tommy Boy, faithful still after twelve years, ed.) would support such a project, but they were actually enthusiastic about it, although they rightly pointed out to us that it would be risky to put out a triple CD at too high a cost... So the president of the label suggested that we release the CDs a few months apart, so as to keep all our stuff nice and fresh on the shelves...’ Dave: ”I think it's time once again to do something new, not only artistically but also strategically.“

And how will you promote each release? Are you going to release a single each time? “No, we're going to release three singles for each album... We would need more... Well, what do you want, it seems that more can't be done. We are already getting great feedback from people who have heard the work: we have guests who have really given the album more than the usual featuring, artists like Redman, Chaka Khan...”

Tell me about Chaka Khan and her collaboration with you... Pos: “It was amazing to work with her; our manager is always ready to throw out strange ideas and reach out to people with whom she has a certain chemistry. We just had to find something suitable for her, also because apart from ’Jazzmatazz“ with Guru and a track with Melle Mel, Chaka had never done anything else in rap. It is unfortunate that the young talents coming out today don't know certain historical artists at all and don't even know how much these artists could add to new work with their experience in the field. Many kids have been raised on contemporary music and their knowledge doesn't go beyond Mary J. Blige, to give you an example. Maybe some are even a little intimidated by recording with a big-name star, but they don't realize what it can mean to have a personality like Chaka Khan in the studio...”

And how do the historical artists feel about this? Pos: “Well, for sure some of them are up to date on new music productions...Chaka loves Lauryn Hill and listens a lot to contemporary singers, but she doesn't disdain Hip Hop at all and she also follows different mc's because she likes to listen to what's coming out now...It's a shame not to even try to involve personalities like her in new projects, maybe different from what you would expect from a De La Soul track, but at the most what can happen is that the artist will tell you no...It's still worth trying.’

This is the fifth time youʼve been in the studio for an album and it doesnʼt happen to many Hip Hop groups to record five albums in their career without rehashing the lineup at least a little bit: you, on the other hand, are always three and you are always pretty tight even as a concept and development of your ideas... Pos: “The thing is that we donʼt really spend much time ‘outside’ the studio, rather than inside... We are always recording something, thatʼs our big thing: either we record our own stuff or we spend whole days in the studio with other groups, new artists that we produce ourselves. We're always looking for new beats and new stimuli to help us produce a better album... Also, since we came up with the idea of the triple album, we haven't really spent much time outdoors, believe me... It's our job, but it's also something that we have in us, totally naturally, and the studio is our habitat.’

Dave: “...Hip Hop is a worldwide club: kids are born breathing this air now, you have it around and it's not like it used to be that you had to ‘learn’ to be Hip Hop or be part of the movement... 

The situation youʼre in, however, is definitely different from 1988, ʼ89, when you went into the studio for your debut album: how do you feel now with quite a few years of work on your shoulders?Dave: “The market is totally different than it was yesterday; the competition is fierce, there are bands putting out a record every month, every week thereʼs a new artist coming out, fans want fresh, new music much more often than in the past, and music dries up very quickly, three months after a release the fans want something really new and different from you... Thatʼs why right now there are artists putting out two albums in a row, six, seven months apart. The reassuring thing about De La and our music is that we don't fear competition because we can count on a loyal and faithful following and a sound that is really our own, definitely recognizable. There are no artists who can come out at the same time as us and disrupt our attention or our sales, also because over the distance De La always come out managing to achieve positive and satisfying results: there are not many people who can give the audience what we give, so we remain firmly convinced of our originality and our appeal on listeners.”

Contrary to several artists younger than you who donʼt seem to frequent Europe too often, you have toured it far and wide several times, already at the beginning of your career: how do you consider the development of European Hip Hop? Pos: “Weʼve always been great supporters of rap in Europe, weʼve toured several times in many countries and weʼve always been lucky enough to play with local bands... Itʼs so important to see that guys, besides supporting De La, are also pushing artists from their own area, itʼs the only way to ensure a solid development of the whole thing. It's really an honor to be able to play successfully even in parts of the world where, although we don't share the same life situations, people equally feel the message we're bringing forward. ’Dave: ’Hip Hop has created a huge club in the world and it's a club you want to belong to if you're young and if you just want to be a part of something, if you want to belong to something that attracts you to it with an inexplicable force. Hip Hop is a world club: now kids are born breathing this air, you have it around and it's not like it used to be that you had to ”learn“ how to be Hip Hop or be part of the movement... It's a feeling, it's a sensation, it's also a dress code, it's a dance, it's a style, it's a language and I think now it's not about trying to be part of the club, but you get your membership in a totally natural way. ‘Pos: ’People are in it without even trying hard. When ’3 Feet” came out we couldn't believe the things we were starting to discover... Not only did we not imagine that our music had made it all the way to Europe, but we were petrified the first time we went to Texas and realized the situation. People in Texas want to hear our music!!! No way... You never expect, especially in Hip Hop, that your music can really cross the borders of your neighborhood. At first you feel like only your neighbors and relatives really know what you're doing, then you realize that the Dutch and Japanese buy your record and know it as much as the people in the neighborhood. It's still amazing, though.“

Do you feel the presence of these guys every time you enter the studio?Pos and Dave: “Absolutely. Of course we don't compose with just Holland or Japan in mind, but we certainly keep in mind what we've experienced and seen and then it comes naturally to us to make Hip Hop for a totality, for a whole, not just for Brooklyn or Long Island. By going around the world you learn a lot of things ... It's fundamental-I recommend it to everyone.’

You were saying earlier that you spend the best of your days in the studio--what are your projects, labels and artists? Dave: “I personally am working with a group that I recently got signed to Tommy Boy, people who worked with us a while ago and also appeared on Prince Paul's solo project, “Prince Among Thieves”; along with me are three other elements and right now we are working on our first project at the same time as finishing the De La... ”Pos albums: “I've always produced tracks and backing tracks and I've always been passionate about finding new beats... I'm currently working with a gentleman who also contributed to two tracks on the new album and his name is Dave West with whom I collaborate... Personally, I'm trying to move to the other side of the production desk and devote myself more to this aspect of music. On the new album we have great producers that I really enjoyed working with, people like JayDee from The Ummah, Rockwilder, as I mentioned before, Dave West and then AdLib, a relative of Mase's who created a track that will feature Xzibit and the Alkaholics, although most of the productions are actually our own.”Maseo: “I set up my own label called Bear Mountain, which has artists like DV aka Khrist and Kovas... These are artists who already have credibility and with whom the work promises to be easy in the beginning... You've already heard them on the “Hip Hop 101” compilation and other productions that are still quite ‘hidden’...”

Competition in rap, as we were saying before, has unfortunately become a real obsession and has turned into more or less physical attacks on other artists, into arid and unbearable battles that donʼt even enthuse a good part of the listeners as they used to: moreover, they have brought to the whole scene a fear of dangerousness that is heavily damaging, for example, the whole issue of live shows, which are increasingly difficult to carry out without problems... Dave: “The competition, or rather the clash, has gone beyond lyrics and rhymes, unfortunately. Some people have become jealous to see too much status, too much excess, too many feuds... Right now the rap situation is a little scary... especially since the death of Tupac, Biggie, Freaky Tah and Big L. We are ordinary people and we all go through more or less pleasant moments in life, but we must always respect with all our might the life itself, the art and the words that are put into the records because, in some cases, going overboard can be fatal. I think people need to understand, remember and respect the fact that the art of mcing, of speaking in rhyme over music, was born as a motive for personal expression and even when it came to giving battle to others, it was born and ended on the stage; nowadays certain situations have gotten out of hand and have become really too serious.’

Your style has always been characterized by the class with which you talk about certain topics... It may be that certain realities donʼt sit well with you, but the way you point them out is always rich in imagination and style... On the new album you talk about ʻrappers in shiny suitsʼ affirming your indifference about them in songful words. You may not agree with several aspects of current Hip Hop but you always say it with great class... Dave: “We donʼt want to slaughter anyone, nor do we want to be the preachers or police of rap... I think that having reached this point, we are not afraid to touch certain topics or the susceptibility of certain artists... Someone will be offended anyway... Patience. I can and will always be satisfied and proud of what I say on records.”

What then is the most negative aspect of your profession? Pos: “As Dave says, the level of personal consideration some guys have of themselves these days is a problem; back in the day, egotism and self-regard were much more measured... The Cold Crush Brothers could even give battle to other mcʼs on stage, going and saying some pretty personal and irritating things as well, but it all ended there and outside of the jam everything went smoothly and people respected and appreciated each other for who they were. Now, you can say anything and that something ‘maybe’ can start a war until people get really hurt. It's really sad.’

Whatʼs the best aspect of your career and profession then? Dave: “Creating. For sure itʼs great to go on tour, to do the videos, to win awards or nominations, to travel, but the best part will forever remain to have a vision and to realize it, to feel things and put them to music, to create songs.”

However, I believe that De La Soulʼs approach to music, to songs, to the attitude of your ʻcolleaguesʼ and to Hip Hop in general will of course remain deep and searching, but always accompanied by that certain humor that characterizes you as people... “3 Feet” had some really unthinkable cabaret cues and I always wanted to know who was that guy who in one skit says in a fierce Italian accent “Hey, De La, you betta than my mamma lasagna!” (hey, De La, you're better than my mom's lasagna! nda)...Pos and Dave (laughing), “Yeah, we remember, it was Popmaster, a guy who was friends with Prince Paul, did you doubt it?”

Absolutely... It will remain unbeatable your piece against the ʻcopiers of styleʼ by profession that is for me a manifesto of elevation, creativity and endless class appropriate to the metaphor: “Potholes In My Lawn”... Pos: “Potholes” is exactly a metaphor about those who come after you trying to weed out and steal your style, while not even coming close... ‘Potholes In My Lawn’... Our rhymes, our lyrics are lovingly tended like plants, and it's not wise to leave the garden untended, because there's always someone eyeballing and trying to chew up the work that you so lovingly tended and nurtured... It was a somewhat creative way of continuing what Run DMC had started with ’Sucker Mc's“...”

So whereʼs all the creativity that gives voice to our imagination and our desire to have fun without necessarily tracing certain formats of violence or contempt for others? Where have the weapons of sarcasm and irony gone? Pos: “Among mcʼs, especially among men, there is now a belief that to be really cool you never have to smile, you have to be tougher than everyone else, the ego is getting blown out of proportion, and unfortunately guys are forgetting how to be innocent, young, how to really have fun and enjoy life. I know for a fact that when some people are at home they are not perpetually grunting and yelling at everything and everyone, so I am sure there must also be another part of you that you keep jealously hidden. Men, boys, not only in rap, but also in sports, in business, need to calm down and take life more relaxed -- if you face every day angry you can't enjoy life or your work, whether you sell a million records or not. Too many people hold back and save their better side... ”Dave: “For sure, De La will continue to give you their joyful side as well as their more suffering side. The two sides coexist in us without any problem because we are all a mixture of both, just as those who try to crush and eliminate the pleasure and joy in making music can never really succeed.”

Still today as twelve years ago “De La Soul posse consists of 3 and that's the Magic Number...” The De La Soul posse consists of three, which is the Magic Number. Math is not an opinion.